Workplace Culture Systems
Joanne Lockwood is joined by talent sourcing trainer Vanessa Raath to unpack how quickly we label other people, and the consequences those snap judgements can have in workplaces and beyond.
Starting with recruitment and “culture fit,” they explore how assumptions can narrow opportunity and reinforce sameness, and why doing the work to look beyond first impressions matters. The conversation expands into how labels show up in everyday life—diet, drinking, humour, and ageing—and how these can become subtle signals of who is seen as “in” or “out.”
Vanessa also shares her experience of being diagnosed with ADHD, the stigma that can follow, and what it has meant to openly embrace it while running her own business. Alongside this, she reflects on growing up in apartheid South Africa and how that history shaped her perspective on race, segregation, and the long-term impact of structural labelling.
Across the episode, both Joanne and Vanessa return to the idea of noticing judgement in real time, creating space to challenge assumptions, and choosing more empathetic ways to connect—so people can be seen and valued beyond the labels placed on them.
About Vanessa Raath
One-sentence summary
Vanessa Raath’s story is about choosing curiosity over judgement — because she knows how easily a system can shrink people, and how powerful it is when someone decides to see beyond the label.
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Synopsis
Vanessa Raath grew up in apartheid South Africa, in a world where separation wasn’t questioned because it was simply “how things were”. She attended a whites-only school until her final year, and one childhood memory still sits heavily with her: standing near two public toilets — one for white people, one for non‑white people — while the woman who helped raise her had to ask a stranger to escort a ten-year-old Vanessa inside because they weren’t allowed to enter together. She didn’t question it then. Now, as an adult, she can’t unsee it. That early normalisation of division shaped her into someone who is alert to how quickly we categorise, decide, distance.
Today, Vanessa works in talent sourcing and speaks openly about her ADHD — something she once kept quiet. She calls it her “superpower”, not because it is easy, but because it fuels her courage to approach strangers, to speak candidly, to build her own business on her own terms. She is trying to change how we see people — in hiring rooms, in boardrooms, at barbecues, on beaches. Because she has lived the consequences of judgement becoming policy, of labels becoming law. What she is protecting is simple: people’s chances to be known as more than assumptions.
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10 Small, digestible concepts for easy learning
1. A label is often just a shortcut for thinking.
And shortcuts are rarely fair.
2. Human nature explains judgement — it doesn’t excuse it.
We may instinctively categorise, but we can choose not to stay there.
3. Growing up inside a system can make injustice feel normal.
Awareness often arrives years later — and it changes everything.
4. Workplaces can succeed where society fails.
They can create spaces where people actually mix and connect.
5. Familiar doesn’t mean better.
Hiring someone just like “Mike” feels safe, but it shrinks possibility.
6. Difference is interesting if you let it be.
Curiosity expands us; avoidance keeps us small.
7. Neurodivergence isn’t a flaw to hide.
It can be a different rhythm of thinking, creating and leading.
8. Confidence grows with self-acceptance.
Owning who you are quietens other people’s noise.
9. Humour can wound without us noticing.
Casual jokes often carry real exclusion.
10. Once you’ve labelled someone, it’s hard to rethink them.
First impressions are sticky — so tread carefully.
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The “why” in the story
What they believe is true about people
Vanessa believes people are more complex — and more capable — than the boxes we put them in.
What they cannot unsee
She cannot unsee the absurd cruelty of separation normalised as daily life — toilets divided, schools segregated, friendships prevented by policy.
What they are no longer willing to tolerate
She is no longer willing to tolerate snap judgements in hiring, casual stereotyping in conversation, or silence around neurodivergence.
What they are trying to build instead
She is building workplaces — and conversations — where curiosity replaces assumption, and where difference is explored rather than filtered out.
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Narrative structure
1. The trigger:
Growing up within apartheid. That childhood moment at the segregated toilets. Later explaining that reality to audiences abroad and watching people cry — realising how deeply silence and labelling harm.
2. The tension:
Judgement is human nature. Even she catches herself doing it — sitting on a bench, observing strangers, forming snap conclusions. She knows how easy it is. That’s what makes it dangerous.
3. The insight:
Labels are rarely about the person being labelled — they’re about our own point of reference, our own inherited stories.
4. The pivot:
She consciously gravitates towards people who don’t look or sound like her. She questions CV assumptions. She speaks openly about her ADHD. She refuses to hide.
5. The destination:
A world — especially in workplaces — where people are hired for their depth, not dismissed for difference; where ageing, race, neurodivergence, or lifestyle choices don’t quietly close doors.
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Five key takeaways and learning points
1. If you don’t question what shaped you, you’ll repeat it.
Systems may crumble, but habits of thinking linger. Awareness is the beginning of repair.
2. Diversity without intention defaults to familiarity.
We naturally choose people like us — so fairness requires conscious effort.
3. Visibility reduces stigma.
When Vanessa began talking about her ADHD, others felt safe to say “me too”.
4. Age brings clarity — if you let it.
Knowing yourself makes other people’s labels less powerful.
5. Curiosity is an act of resistance.
Choosing to ask instead of assume quietly dismantles prejudice.
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Ten distinct ideas explained
1. Segregation harms memory as well as opportunity.
When you grow up separated, you inherit stories without relationships. That absence shapes how you see strangers.
2. Snap judgements feel efficient — but cost dignity.
They save time while stealing complexity.
3. Referral hiring can reinforce sameness.
If “Mark” leaves and we look for another Mark, we protect comfort over possibility.
4. Not all exclusions are loud.
Forgetting to cater for vegetarians or non‑drinkers sends a subtle message: you weren’t considered.
5. Neurodivergence challenges narrow definitions of competence.
ADHD may complicate admin, but it can also fuel connection and creativity.
6. Humour can normalise bias.
When stereotypes become punchlines, prejudice feels acceptable.
7. Age shifts identity.
We outgrow old labels — party-goer, ambitious climber, rebel — yet others may cling to outdated versions of us.
8. Health is an inclusion issue too.
The ability to keep making decisions, to remain independent, affects dignity later in life.
9. Belonging requires anticipation.
Inclusion isn’t reacting when someone reminds you — it’s preparing before they arrive.
10. You can’t build fairness on autopilot.
It takes deliberate interruption of habit, again and again.
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How people should change as a result
1. Think
- “What assumption am I making right now?”
- “Is this person actually who I think they are — or is that my story talking?”
- “If I remove the label, what do I see?”
- “Am I choosing comfort over fairness?”
- “What haven’t I experienced that might widen my perspective?”
2. Feel
- Less defensive when challenged.
- More curious about difference.
- More reflective about inherited beliefs.
- More compassion for the limits of ageing or neurodivergence.
- More responsibility instead of quiet superiority.
3. Act
- Pause before making a hiring decision based solely on a CV impression.
- Intentionally strike up conversations with people outside your usual circle.
- Check your humour — especially when it targets groups.
- State access needs and invite others to share theirs.
- Consider who wasn’t accounted for in your plans — food, timing, format, accessibility.
- Speak openly about parts of yourself you once hid, if safe to do so.
- When you misstep, acknowledge it and correct it.
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One thing to remember
The moment you believe you’ve “figured someone out” is the moment you’ve stopped seeing them.