Talking Not Telling

Joanne Lockwood is joined by confidence coach and inclusion consultant Katie Allen to explore what it really means to “talk, not tell” in inclusion work. Together they unpack why people get stuck in ambiguity and fear saying the wrong thing, and how psychological safety can disappear the moment a conversation moves from business topics to subjects like racism, identity, or gender.

They dig into intention versus impact, accountability, and the everyday language choices that can cause harm—even when someone “meant well.” The conversation also looks at echo chambers, polarisation on social media, and how cultural intelligence grows when we actively seek out perspectives beyond our own.

A significant part of the episode centres on lived experience. Katie shares her identity as asexual and panromantic, explaining different forms of attraction and how asexuality is often misunderstood—including within LGBTQIA+ spaces. Joanne reflects on how transitioning changed her understanding of gendered experience and highlights how blind spots can remain around race and policing.

Throughout, the focus stays on curiosity over perfectionism: creating space for respectful conversation, learning, and changing behaviour when we discover our words or assumptions have negative impacts.

One-sentence summary

Katie Allen believes that inclusion begins when we stop performing perfection and start having honest, messy conversations that protect people’s dignity — including our own.

---

Synopsis

Katie Allen is someone who has learned to sit comfortably in the grey. As a confidence coach and inclusion consultant, she is less interested in policing language and more invested in understanding people. She knows the look people give her — the slight fear that she’ll point out all the ways they’re wrong. But that’s not who she is. She’d rather “rummage around in grey ambiguity that everybody else hates” and ask: What’s going on for you? How do you see the world? Her work is shaped not just by professional experience, but by personal truth. As an asexual, pan-romantic woman in a relationship that from the outside looks entirely conventional, she understands what it means to be both visible and invisible at the same time.

What she is trying to change is the culture of silence. The fear of saying the wrong thing. The defensiveness that makes people clutch at “good intentions” while ignoring harm. She has seen how quickly people retreat into echo chambers, how leadership teams can discuss sales forecasts but freeze at the word racism. For Katie, the stakes are simple: if we don’t talk — genuinely talk — we leave people alone with their hurt, their confusion, and their misunderstanding. And when people don’t feel seen, someone else will step in to make them feel that way. She wants to build spaces where no one has to shout to be heard, defend their existence, or hide the biggest truths about who they are.

---

10 Small, digestible concepts for easy learning

1. Good intentions don’t repair harm.

You can mean well and still break someone’s arm — the impact still exists.

2. Being wrong isn’t the same as being a bad person.

Mistakes are human; refusing to learn is the problem.

3. Silence feels safer — but it solves nothing.

Avoiding hard conversations protects comfort, not dignity.

4. Language evolves — and so must we.

We change words easily when it benefits us; we can do it to benefit others too.

5. Psychological safety is tested by discomfort.

It’s easy when discussing numbers — the real test is discussing racism.

6. Echo chambers feel warm — but shrink our world.

If everyone agrees with you, you’re probably not stretching.

7. Inclusion is everyone — just not at anyone’s expense.

Adding voice should never mean silencing someone else.

8. Curiosity is stronger than cancellation.

A question can open a door that an accusation slams shut.

9. Representation shortens loneliness.

Seeing yourself reflected on screen can change the timeline of self-acceptance.

10. Emotions are data.

If you feel defensive, that feeling is information — not proof you’re right.

---

The “why” in the story

What they believe is true about people

Katie believes most people are not malicious — they are scared. Scared of getting it wrong, of being labelled, of losing status, of being cancelled. Beneath that fear, she believes, is a basic human desire to feel seen and to belong.

What they cannot unsee

She cannot unsee the harm caused by everyday language, nor the way people retreat into ideological corners. She cannot unsee how harmful systems affect men as well as women, or how queer and asexual identities remain invisible even within supposedly inclusive spaces.

What they are no longer willing to tolerate

She is no longer willing to tolerate conversations that expect marginalised people to defend their own existence. Nor will she accept the defence of “that’s just how I’ve always said it” when harm is explained.

What they are trying to build instead

She is building rooms where talking is safer than staying silent — where people can say the wrong thing, unpack it, and leave better than they arrived.

---

Narrative structure

1. The trigger:

Years of watching leaders freeze when conversations turned from profit to prejudice. Realising that people weren’t unwilling — they were afraid. And personally, recognising how little representation existed for asexual identities growing up.

2. The tension:

She stands between people who fear inclusion and communities who are tired of explaining themselves. She absorbs defensiveness without escalating it. That emotional labour is quiet but constant.

3. The insight:

Labels of “good” and “bad” people shut down conversation. When we detach identity from error, space opens for growth.

4. The pivot:

Instead of correcting people publicly, she asks questions. Instead of telling, she talks. Instead of reacting to discomfort, she treats it as data.

5. The destination:

A world where people can say: This is who I am, without fear. Where leaders step forward as allies not because it’s trendy, but because they understand.

---

Five key takeaways and learning points

1. You don’t have to be perfect to participate.

So what: Stop waiting until you know everything. Start the conversation now.

2. If someone tells you a word hurts, that’s enough.

So what: Change it. It costs nothing but pride.

3. Defensiveness is often fear in disguise.

So what: Get curious about what you’re protecting.

4. Inclusion includes the uncertain.

So what: Engage people who are curious, not just those who agree.

5. Allyship is taking heat so others don’t have to.

So what: Use your social comfort to make space for someone else.

---

Ten distinct ideas explained

1. Frames of reference shape reality.

We assume our view is neutral, but it’s built from our environment. When we only mix with people like us, our perspective hardens into “truth”.

2. Intent and impact can coexist.

You can be kind-hearted and still cause harm. Owning impact restores dignity.

3. Psychological safety is selective.

Teams often feel safe discussing business — but identity threatens comfort, revealing fragile safety.

4. Language carries history.

Words rooted in colonialism or ableism carry emotional weight for those affected, even if others never felt it.

5. Representation changes self-understanding.

Seeing asexual or queer identities portrayed as ordinary reduces isolation and accelerates acceptance.

6. Echo chambers feed certainty.

Algorithms reward agreement, deepening polarisation and reducing empathy.

7. Masculinity is constrained too.

Systems built to privilege some men also limit emotional freedom for them, reinforcing silence.

8. Identity isn’t always visible.

Katie “passes” as conventional — yet invisibility can erase experience just as much as hostility.

9. Curiosity disrupts extremism.

People gravitate to polarising figures when they feel unseen. Inclusion interrupts that recruitment pipeline.

10. Authenticity requires conversation.

Relationships deepen when there are no secrets to defend.

---

How people should change as a result

1. Think

• Move from “Am I right?” to “What am I missing?”
• See language not as fixed rules but as evolving agreements.
• Understand that discomfort doesn’t equal danger.
• Recognise that identity is more layered than it appears.
• Accept that you can care without fully understanding.

2. Feel

• Shift from defensiveness to curiosity.
• Move from guilt to responsibility.
• Replace fear of cancellation with willingness to learn.
• Trade certainty for humility.
• Feel less threatened by perspectives that differ from yours.

3. Act

• Ask someone: “How did that feel for you?” — and listen fully.
• Change a word immediately when told it causes harm.
• Follow voices online that challenge your perspective.
• Interrupt harmful comments so affected people don’t have to.
• Reflect before responding when you feel defensive.
• Create time in meetings for real, human conversation — not just metrics.

---

One thing to remember

Inclusion isn’t about saying the perfect thing — it’s about being brave enough to keep talking.